5th Generation Info Thread

[Donald]

Should stay rare if you ask me

[rob quilter]

Should stay rare if you ask me

Especially the silver one

[nitin_s1]

The black one is ok IMO,

[Donald]

@Merlin, not sure if you want to split this off into it's own topic if it gets a bit spammy or you think it's irrelevant... I didn't think it warranted it's own thread, but I also didn't want to start this discussion off in the thread where the question was asked (http://www.ludegeneration.co.uk/post129716.html#p129716) as it's unrelated to that topic entirely... and I also didn't want to do it via PM and pass on misinformation.

Donald - I think that once I'm happy that my Lude is running 100% that it'll be upgrade time - don't suppose you could drop me a PM with what to look for ref. MK5's - you mentioned several things to look for inc. the best 'years' to buy.

@Dobbs, I've put this here so I'm not a quiet voice in your ear telling you to buy the 'wrong' Prelude.  



Plus hopefully you can get some opinions and advice from others. I know it maybe isn’t quite what you asked for but if you’re looking to buy a 5G to upgrade from your 4G you can’t go around buying willynilly without knowing stuff! A lot of this info is on the forum sprawled throughout various threads, but I’m not sure if it’s been put into one place with a sort of comparison. It's better to look at something than look for it.


Assuming you’re after a manual VTEC 5G… the short story based on stock performance:

If you're going for a JDM I would only bother with either the S-Spec or the TypeS.
Both 217bhp, TypeS has ATTS, S-Spec has LSD.
The 197bhp SiR had options for 4WS and/or LSD.

If you're going for the UKDM, I would get the 99+ for the extra ponies and the shortest ratio Prelude gearbox.
The 99+ carry the H22A8 engine with 197bhp vs. the 97-98 H22A5 engine with 185bhp.
All UKDM 2.2 VTEC cars have 4WS as standard, LSD was not an option for the UK.

Note: the JDM SiR can come as an auto, UKDM 99+ come in auto too, but only with the H22A5 engine.


Here is where the shitstorm may start. I imagine you would’ve asked this at some point and I don’t think I would like to answer that either way, certainly not on my own.

JDM vs. UKDM, which is better? This is the question that will cause a thousand tears if you answer one way or the other. The impression I get is that people often rate the JDM models over the UKDM just because it’s JDM yo, and I get angry in the anus about that. Maybe I'm just jealous.

So onto the info that counts then...

Spoilered this because there's lots of speculation that might upset people.


[spoiler]Comparing the two top spec models from each domestic market seems like the best way to proceed really.


Engines and stuff

The UK 99+ and TypeS engine etc. are as near as the same. Same internals, same compression ratio, same TB size, dynamic chambered intake, both have a knock sensor. There are some differences I think but TBH they're out of my scope of knowledge. I vaguely remember something about the TypeS intake manifold being slightly different but I’m not 100% on that.

The TypeS makes 217bhp vs. the 99+ with 197bhp. Where that 20bhp comes from I’m not entirely sure but I imagine a portion of it comes down the ECU map. I may be way off here but I think the 99+ is possibly capable of producing very close to the TypeS’s 217bhp with a tune, with the two being as close as clones I don’t see why this isn’t a realistic thought.

Both the 99+ and TypeS have different exhaust systems to the other 5Gs, and they are both different to each-other as well so if you need to replace just a section of the exhaust it’s going to be a ballache if you want to replace with OEM. The only thing IIRC that is interchangeable between all is the backbox.

Thought this stuff was worth mentioning because if you’re going to chase higher power figures I don’t think necessarily the TypeS is the better or easier platform to start with. Regarding the TypeS and exhausts, you’re going to either need to have a custom system made or you'll have modify something aftermarket because the ATTS thing is in the way. Tuning wise whichever one you would go with is going to involve money, in the case of the 99+ it'll be switching to an OBD1 ECU, the TypeS you can only use a piggyback system if I’ve remembered that correctly. If you’re not bothered and going to stay completely stock though... why wouldn’t you want those extra 20 horses with no work needed?


Handling

The TypeS has ATTS and superior suspension components when compared to all other Preludes. The 99+ has 4WS.

Make what you will of that one, I know before there has been some debate over handling and which will out perform the other and there are die hard fans that will argue for either side, simply put no one knows because AFAIK they haven’t been tracked vs. each-other… I don’t know if anyone with a TypeS on here has been on track with it.

I like 4WS, it’s a nice bit of kit and works well. Overall it’s pretty reliable and in the time I’ve had a Prelude I’ve not read of anyone not being able to fix their 4WS if it’s done a shat, 9/10 a reset will do it if the light comes on.

As for ATTS… I’ll keep it short because I don’t want to get accused of slagging it off but I have read of quite a few times where it has presented an issue or two but then again I haven’t heard of one facking itself completely and never working again, mostly it seems to be a bit sensitive but issues are easily resolved. From what I’ve read of how it works it does seem like a clever bit of kit.


Price

You're going to pay more for the TypeS than anything else of comparable miles/condition, but they seem to hold their money better. UK spec, the 99+ doesn't seem to go for much more than the 97-98. Probably only commands more if at all because of typically lower mileage/age. 


I think that’s a fairly comprehensive comparision of the two cherries of the 5G cake. Overall stock vs. stock the TypeS does appear to be the one to go for, it all comes down to what you want to do with it really, what you expect from a car and what’s available. I think if you factor in the price difference between your average UK 99+ and your average TypeS, you could probably get the 99+, carefully spend the difference in cost and end up with the around the same power output. How well it handles ultimately comes down to the monkey at the wheel.

Hopefully the above info plus actual driving experience will help you to decide between the two if you’re ever in the situation where you could have either a TypeS or a UK 99+. Once mine has had a few maintenance things sorted you’re welcome to take it for a spin.[/spoiler]


A lot of this is all IMO and I am not by any means the go-to source of Prelude information, but I’m sure this is all fairly accurate with maybe a tiny bit of bias towards what I have, but I’m sure asking someone on the ‘opposing side’ will result in much of the same thing. Everyone’s proud of what they have and of course wants it to be the choice.

So not really the short story after all.

Hopefully some of the others can chip in with this and offer impartial views (or as best as they can manage). Feel free to correct anything I’ve stated as fact or potential fact. I don't think any of this info contradicts Merlin's first post.

@Merlin
@bennyboy
@RattyMcClelland
@lewd lude lover

You lot appear to know what you’re talking about. Thoughts?

[nitin_s1]

The main reason why I like jdm models (Sir/Type-S etc) over the UKDM models is that because of the options it has on it such as climate control, power folding mirror etc. Makes the interior such a nice place to be in and it doesn't make the car feel old. IMO of course.

[Donald]

Climate control would be nice for the UK, I am upset about that. As for more modern though... I would argue that all the stuff that comes as standard for the UK such as cc, heated seats, heated wing mirrors, sunroof and aircon, it does hold it's own allure.

That all said I do have TypeS seats and the red carpet and centre console in mine. the stock UK interior is a bit drab.

Seeing as the options list for both is so large (but more so the JDM) the main comparison I was trying to draw was to do with the driving side of things/however you could say it.

Besides the climate control and sat nav TV, everything else interior wise is simple to retrofit to either.

[lewd lude lover]

personally the main reason to buy JDM and pay the premium on purchase and the premium on insurance is because you can get 16 year old cars that have NO RUST or next to no rust.

Also the jap owners seem to take care of cars better than european/UK owners so the interior is normally a bit cleaner...


Also they are smaller by design (japanese people) so the bolster wear is normally quite minimal

get a late model ukdm and search long and hard for a good one.


If you are going from a 4th to a 5th then i would seriously advise you drive a few 5th's to make sure you acctually want the swap. Some people find them rather different to drive.

[bennyboy]

@Merlin
@bennyboy
@RattyMcClelland
@lewd lude lover

You lot appear to know what you’re talking about. Thoughts?

WTF makes you think I know anything about the 5th gen?

Joking aside, I can only comment as I've found. I've owned my car for 11 years, even at the time there was a lot of UK/Jap discussion. I WANTED a UK car. It took me 3 months of looking at 3 websites, at least 3 times a day, when I found my one it had only been on there for 20 minutes
Most of the imports at the time had very sketchy history if any that could be relied upon, insurance companies were wanting a lot more (in my case), and a hell of a lot of imports were the 'wrong' models for me - they were autos, 2.2 NON VTEC's, 2.3's, 2.0....or pink.
I wanted a 2.2. VTEC manual and full history, cheaper insurance. I was only going to get that one way.
As far as which is better, you'll hear a lot of B/S about UK<Jap, at the end of the day some rather excellent minds (some still on here) told me that you shouldn't let THAT stop you buying the right car - i.e. one that suits your criteria. In the real world, I would doubt you're going to feel the difference between the the engines alone (say an H22A5 and a H22A8 as stock, not including the Type S) in otherwise identically specced ludes, especially taking mileage, age and history into account. Sure, compare a H22A5 with everything and auto, to a H22A8 with nothing and manual and you'll notice it.

On that point, the game has changed all this years later, there are a lot less ludes about full stop, and yet it has stayed the same - condition is EVERYTHING in terms of monetary value, don't let your heart rule your head.

HTH

Oh and edited to say, as mentioned, DRIVE them first, don't necessarily think of 5ths as an upgrade because they are newer, they drive quite differently and I found I was aware of the extra weight, BUT I drive my modified 4th every day, so make of that what you will. You may love it, you may not.

[Donald]

WTF makes you think I know anything about the 5th gen?

You do know about the A8 though since you have one.


One thing to add about 4G vs 5G... the interior space. The 5th is much more generic and spacious. I didn't realise how noticeably smaller the 4G is inside until I sat in the back of one from Norfolk to Japfest and back quite odd being in the back and seeing the rear window directly over your head as opposed to starting behind it. I've never driven one though so I can't comment on that.